This forum is officially closed. It will however remain online and active in a limited form for the time being.
XV - The Devil (RWS)
Forum rules
Questions and topics specific to the Rider Waite Smith deck are discussed here.
Questions and topics specific to the Rider Waite Smith deck are discussed here.
Re: XV - The Devil (RWS)
I have analysed the symbolism on the Devil card, starting with the 15th century up to RWS:
https://www.anne-marie.eu/en/tarot-15-the-devil/
My take on the RWS card is this (quote from the above blog):
Artist Pamela Colman-Smith has the card refer unambiguously to the opposite of the divine again. Her Devil is corpulent (gluttony) and sinister. His horns are curved towards the earth. The upside-down torch in his hands refers to the kundalini fire, which flows down instead of up. This is also the meaning of the two tails of the naked man and woman. The grapes (wine) and the fire both refer to the divine kundalini that nourishes on this card the lower, rather than the higher, chakras.
The pentagram, which is shown pointing up with Levi's Baphomet, has been turned downwards on the RWS card. In occult circles, the pentagram pointed upwards refers to God-realization. The fifth point of the star represents the Spirit, which rules the other four points, which represent the four elements (matter). Pointing down, matter (the beast) rules over the Spirit (the divine).
On the upper hand of the Devil is written the sign for Jupiter: of the seven planets of classical astronomy, the planet furthest away from the sun, and (thus) in alchemy symbolizing the first / bottom chakra. The hand gesture itself refers to duality ("split in two").
The naked man and woman evoke associations with Adam and Eve, especially if you place the RWS card The Lovers next to it. Arthur E. Waite and Pamela Colman-Smith were connected to esoteric circles that knew that at the symbolic level the Bible story of Adam and Eve is about man choosing to use the kundalini energy (the serpent) for the lower chakras (sexual activity) and, as a result, losing paradise (connection with the divine).
https://www.anne-marie.eu/en/tarot-15-the-devil/
My take on the RWS card is this (quote from the above blog):
Artist Pamela Colman-Smith has the card refer unambiguously to the opposite of the divine again. Her Devil is corpulent (gluttony) and sinister. His horns are curved towards the earth. The upside-down torch in his hands refers to the kundalini fire, which flows down instead of up. This is also the meaning of the two tails of the naked man and woman. The grapes (wine) and the fire both refer to the divine kundalini that nourishes on this card the lower, rather than the higher, chakras.
The pentagram, which is shown pointing up with Levi's Baphomet, has been turned downwards on the RWS card. In occult circles, the pentagram pointed upwards refers to God-realization. The fifth point of the star represents the Spirit, which rules the other four points, which represent the four elements (matter). Pointing down, matter (the beast) rules over the Spirit (the divine).
On the upper hand of the Devil is written the sign for Jupiter: of the seven planets of classical astronomy, the planet furthest away from the sun, and (thus) in alchemy symbolizing the first / bottom chakra. The hand gesture itself refers to duality ("split in two").
The naked man and woman evoke associations with Adam and Eve, especially if you place the RWS card The Lovers next to it. Arthur E. Waite and Pamela Colman-Smith were connected to esoteric circles that knew that at the symbolic level the Bible story of Adam and Eve is about man choosing to use the kundalini energy (the serpent) for the lower chakras (sexual activity) and, as a result, losing paradise (connection with the divine).
Re: XV - The Devil (RWS)
XV -- The Devil
Artist Pamela Colman-Smith has the card refer unambiguously to the opposite of the divine again. Her Devil is corpulent (gluttony) and sinister. His horns are curved towards the earth. The upside-down torch in his hands refers to the kundalini fire, which flows down instead of up. This is also the meaning of the two tails of the naked man and woman. The grapes (wine) and the fire both refer to the divine kundalini that nourishes on this card the lower, rather than the higher, chakras.
I appreciate this post above because it sees the given art as symbolic, not intending to be the art of a Renaissance master. It is the art of a fine illustrator, with varying success through 78 images-- sometimes strikingly beautiful while symbolic (Magician), sometimes rather flat and simple (3 of swords). No tarot deck provides a successful rendering with each and every card. At any rate, so is my perspective on Pamela Colman Smith's art. It is neither sublimely perfect nor a complete failure-- but it does carry the archetypal imagery on the whole rather well. Later variations on the RWS make some lmprovements as to colorations, depth of perspective, borders or not,etc. Tarot changes and advances.
I noticed that the Devil is flat and unreal, a kind of caricature of the human being. The two lower figures are much more real, much more human. They are free to go but stay enslaved, maybe not at all by the devil outside them above but by their own self-imposed limits of existence. They could break free of themselves but remain self-paralyzed. Can't we all identify with them?
Artist Pamela Colman-Smith has the card refer unambiguously to the opposite of the divine again. Her Devil is corpulent (gluttony) and sinister. His horns are curved towards the earth. The upside-down torch in his hands refers to the kundalini fire, which flows down instead of up. This is also the meaning of the two tails of the naked man and woman. The grapes (wine) and the fire both refer to the divine kundalini that nourishes on this card the lower, rather than the higher, chakras.
I appreciate this post above because it sees the given art as symbolic, not intending to be the art of a Renaissance master. It is the art of a fine illustrator, with varying success through 78 images-- sometimes strikingly beautiful while symbolic (Magician), sometimes rather flat and simple (3 of swords). No tarot deck provides a successful rendering with each and every card. At any rate, so is my perspective on Pamela Colman Smith's art. It is neither sublimely perfect nor a complete failure-- but it does carry the archetypal imagery on the whole rather well. Later variations on the RWS make some lmprovements as to colorations, depth of perspective, borders or not,etc. Tarot changes and advances.
I noticed that the Devil is flat and unreal, a kind of caricature of the human being. The two lower figures are much more real, much more human. They are free to go but stay enslaved, maybe not at all by the devil outside them above but by their own self-imposed limits of existence. They could break free of themselves but remain self-paralyzed. Can't we all identify with them?
- TheLoracular
- Sage
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: 14 Sep 2020, 15:50
Re: XV - The Devil (RWS)
I was introduced to the RWS card for the Devil eight years before I began to seriously study Western Hermetic magic and it was my very first encounter with anything related to Baphomet. Of all the tarot cards, this one shocked and titillated my sixteen year old self; there was a lot less occultism in mainstream media in 1985 and most of it rather negative and pure horror genre. It scared me but also intrigued me.
Anyone interested in what Baphomet meant to Levi himself and its inclusion into the RWS deck might find this article interesting: https://www.learnreligions.com/eliphas- ... f-mendes-9
What I see when I look at this card now through my 2020 eyes is so different. I'm immediately drawn into comparison with The Hierophant & The Lovers as others in the thread mentioned. I perceive that the Archangel archetype and the Devil archetype are really a polarity that can be brought together to be whole. Knowledge of Good -and- Evil is a hard burden though.
Accepting the lessons that Baphomet has to teach isn't easy because the Devil is The Adversary and when this card shows up in a reading? The Querent is going to hear some things they aren't going to enjoy. Because they are stuck in a problem of their own making and the only solution is going to be making some hard changes. Like giving up an addiction, or an abusive or self-abusive behavior, like admitting they lie, cheat, or steal - and having the desire to Be Better, not merely to escape punishment but to feel better about themselves. Less trapped. Less scared. Less doomed.
The Adversary exists to test us and give us the opportunity to be our better selves, all the time. I don't like the biblical story of Job, I hate the idea of bad things happening to good people to make them have to prove how good they are, but life sure seems to play this allegory out. Life demands courage and selflessness and a lot of giving and doing and being the hero and the good shepherd out of all of us. When we get greedy, when we start hoarding and treating other people as tools to benefit us and our savings account? Well, we start becoming imps chained into the service of consumerism and materialism and we are going to get ourselves enchained and deprive ourselves of everything cards like The Lovers and The Hierophant and The Magician offer.
The Magician might stand in the same pose as The Devil; The Magician can go very badly if he switches the wand from his heaven-high hand and instead of drawing energy from Heaven to transform the Earth, he like the Devil, draws his power from only base things. From money. From a fan base. From coercion and domination. The tarot and this card especially have taught me to not let the material world be be-all and end-all and there's such a thing as "enough money" and being generous with what I've got with people who are less fortunate, doing so from a place of love and goodwill towards every person simple because people matter. That keeps the devil at bay. Kindness, selflessness, compassion, love.
Anyone interested in what Baphomet meant to Levi himself and its inclusion into the RWS deck might find this article interesting: https://www.learnreligions.com/eliphas- ... f-mendes-9
What I see when I look at this card now through my 2020 eyes is so different. I'm immediately drawn into comparison with The Hierophant & The Lovers as others in the thread mentioned. I perceive that the Archangel archetype and the Devil archetype are really a polarity that can be brought together to be whole. Knowledge of Good -and- Evil is a hard burden though.
Accepting the lessons that Baphomet has to teach isn't easy because the Devil is The Adversary and when this card shows up in a reading? The Querent is going to hear some things they aren't going to enjoy. Because they are stuck in a problem of their own making and the only solution is going to be making some hard changes. Like giving up an addiction, or an abusive or self-abusive behavior, like admitting they lie, cheat, or steal - and having the desire to Be Better, not merely to escape punishment but to feel better about themselves. Less trapped. Less scared. Less doomed.
The Adversary exists to test us and give us the opportunity to be our better selves, all the time. I don't like the biblical story of Job, I hate the idea of bad things happening to good people to make them have to prove how good they are, but life sure seems to play this allegory out. Life demands courage and selflessness and a lot of giving and doing and being the hero and the good shepherd out of all of us. When we get greedy, when we start hoarding and treating other people as tools to benefit us and our savings account? Well, we start becoming imps chained into the service of consumerism and materialism and we are going to get ourselves enchained and deprive ourselves of everything cards like The Lovers and The Hierophant and The Magician offer.
The Magician might stand in the same pose as The Devil; The Magician can go very badly if he switches the wand from his heaven-high hand and instead of drawing energy from Heaven to transform the Earth, he like the Devil, draws his power from only base things. From money. From a fan base. From coercion and domination. The tarot and this card especially have taught me to not let the material world be be-all and end-all and there's such a thing as "enough money" and being generous with what I've got with people who are less fortunate, doing so from a place of love and goodwill towards every person simple because people matter. That keeps the devil at bay. Kindness, selflessness, compassion, love.
Re: XV - The Devil (RWS)
"The Adversary exists to test us and give us the opportunity to be our better selves, all the time."
I could quote the whole just prior post for its insight into the RWS Devil, so much there. Goethe's Faust agrees with the quote above. The devil running through that epic acts as a prod for progress, as a stimulant to face oneself, the light and the dark inside, and transform oneself. The Lord says about this devil( Mephistopheles): "For you I feel no hate.For humanity's activity...falls too soon into slothful ease; the Devil's a companion who will tease and spur one on...". And the Devil says: "I am part of that force which, always willing evil, always produces good." This Devil rejects wholeness, preferring bits and pieces, as the plot moves on. He is the grand reductionist, the force of chaos, which is strong today in American politics. The RWS Devil looms up above and controls the free individuals below, like an undermining thought-form they create to get in their way awhile, until they realize they are their own devil and release themselves from their own bondage. Maybe Americans will release themselves from their devilish bondage to brutal materialistic politics and to aggressive win, no no matter what. Temperance angel in dire need!
I could quote the whole just prior post for its insight into the RWS Devil, so much there. Goethe's Faust agrees with the quote above. The devil running through that epic acts as a prod for progress, as a stimulant to face oneself, the light and the dark inside, and transform oneself. The Lord says about this devil( Mephistopheles): "For you I feel no hate.For humanity's activity...falls too soon into slothful ease; the Devil's a companion who will tease and spur one on...". And the Devil says: "I am part of that force which, always willing evil, always produces good." This Devil rejects wholeness, preferring bits and pieces, as the plot moves on. He is the grand reductionist, the force of chaos, which is strong today in American politics. The RWS Devil looms up above and controls the free individuals below, like an undermining thought-form they create to get in their way awhile, until they realize they are their own devil and release themselves from their own bondage. Maybe Americans will release themselves from their devilish bondage to brutal materialistic politics and to aggressive win, no no matter what. Temperance angel in dire need!
-
- Seeker
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 17 Mar 2021, 17:54
Re: XV - The Devil (RWS)
That link does not work any more.Anyone interested in what Baphomet meant to Levi himself and its inclusion into the RWS deck might find this article interesting: https://www.learnreligions.com/eliphas- ... f-mendes-9
Here is the only link I have found with a translation of Levi for anyone that just wants to go to the source "DOGMA AND RITUAL HIGH MAGIC"
https://midnightsideshow.com/?p=281
Thanks
- TheLoracular
- Sage
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: 14 Sep 2020, 15:50
Re: XV - The Devil (RWS)
Thank you for posting the link. Right now in Tarot Esoterica podcasts, I'm going through Doctrine (Dogma) and Rituals of High Magic, chapter by chapter, Major Arcana by Major Arcana. I'm working off my my favorite translation by John Michael Greer & Anthony Mikituk. When I get to Chapter 15, I will come back to this thread and offer up new thoughts on Levi and Baphomet. Researching, writing (and then voicing) my own commentary is really bringing up a lot of new perspective and insight for me.Weirdhaven wrote: ↑17 Mar 2021, 18:07That link does not work any more.Anyone interested in what Baphomet meant to Levi himself and its inclusion into the RWS deck might find this article interesting: https://www.learnreligions.com/eliphas- ... f-mendes-9
Here is the only link I have found with a translation of Levi for anyone that just wants to go to the source "DOGMA AND RITUAL HIGH MAGIC"
https://midnightsideshow.com/?p=281
Thanks
Re: XV - The Devil (RWS)
A.E.Waite was probably being enigmatic, as authors tend not to give away spoilers.Joan Marie wrote: ↑16 Oct 2018, 16:57 He says he has "the sign of Mercury at the pit of his stomach" Hard as I try, I do not see that at all. if anyone could point that out I'd be grateful.
In Piers Anthony's, Tarot series of science fiction novels, the protagonist Brother Paul undertakes a mission to investigate the Planet Tarot (the Fool's Journey) on behalf of his very eclectic religious order.
When he meets The Devil he is swept up and swallowed whole. I can't remember what occurs or who Brother Paul meets deep down in the bowels of Satan but eventually he is pooped out. This can make a lot of sense when Adam and Eve are seen to be the lower legs of the Devil. You'll need to squint your eyes to see this, and it's here the sign of Mercury is more readily apparent.
I do apologise for the icky subject matter but there is a curious correlation between quicksilver and the function of defecation,
I think the idea of the Devil sitting on the crapper gives us hope. When we see other Major Arcana who are seated on a throne, the Emperor, the Empress, the High Priestess etc, they appear to my eyes completely purged of all earthly vice, spiritually transcended (though still anchored to nature), and can therefore be wholly trusted in what message they bring.
Oddly enough, the horns and inverted pentagram on the brow of The Devil remind me of the British imperial state crown -
and the fact that it is kept locked away in the Tower of London ...
well, maybe that's getting into Dan Brown territory, if you'll excuse the pun!
live long and prosper