JRR Tolkien, Middle Earth and the Great Converstaion

[qndynes]

I didn't know what to write in the subject exactly, but I know I wanted it to include JRR Tolkien. Also, Joan Marie, please move this thread if it is in the wrong place, I wasn't sure where to put it.

So I am a humungous, huge, JRR Tolkien and Middle Earth lover, for me middle earth is a Story that goes beyond the bounds of fiction and into the realm of myth, the myths that we carry with us, the Imaginal, Mundus Imaginalis. Middle Earth is another facet, another aspect of this same ol' earth we live in. Just from another perspective, through other eyes, fae eyes. The imaginal is just as real and just as potent, thinking here with Dr. Becca Tarnas, Jung and Tolkien scholar. So with this new space in the forum for exploring narratives with the cards, I had a zap! inspiration, and I thought, "Why don't I do something with the cards and Tolkien, or maybe persons from Middle Earth?" I could then explore these conversations in relation to our current timeline as humans living in the world.

I'm thinking I should pick out a deck for this so I will sit with this idea for the weekend and look at my decks, seeing what calls to me. Maybe I will even start the conversation. As soon as I have a reading done, I will write it here along with a snapshot of the spread.

[Nemia]

I've been a Tolkien fanatic since a long night in 1977 when I started reading the Lord of the Rings and couldn't stop. There were years when I wrote my diary in Tengwar (simplified it for my use).

Tolkien didn't invent his cosmos - he discovered it. There's astronomy and geography and mythology and religion and so many different cultures there... and I'm sure there is more to explore, things Tolkien himself didn't know were there. I have thought sometimes that I'd love to see a tarot deck that really delves into these worlds. Elbereth as High Priestess... would that work? Maybe there are worlds that can't be put into the tarot structure?

(I found interesting parallels between the tarot majors and the Religion of Seven from a Song of Ice and Fire).

Anyway, I'm curious to listen to any conversation or project of discovery that involves Tolkiens' world. Great idea.

[qndynes]

I've been a Tolkien fanatic since a long night in 1977 when I started reading the Lord of the Rings and couldn't stop. There were years when I wrote my diary in Tengwar (simplified it for my use).

Tolkien didn't invent his cosmos - he discovered it. There's astronomy and geography and mythology and religion and so many different cultures there... and I'm sure there is more to explore, things Tolkien himself didn't know were there. I have thought sometimes that I'd love to see a tarot deck that really delves into these worlds. Elbereth as High Priestess... would that work? Maybe there are worlds that can't be put into the tarot structure?

(I found interesting parallels between the tarot majors and the Religion of Seven from a Song of Ice and Fire).

Anyway, I'm curious to listen to any conversation or project of discovery that involves Tolkiens' world. Great idea.

Oh yes, indeed that's true Tolkien discovered this cosmos, I believe in his conversations regarding Middle Earth he explicitly says this. It was a sort of an unveiling, where he found himself discovering the happenings of Middle Earth as he explored the place. Obviously these are my words, but yes. He also mentions that this is part fae sight, as if he's getting a glimpse of a world within this world.

I haven't read anything on Game of Thrones so I don't know about the religion of seven. But I would definitely love to find a really good, well thought out Middle Earth Tarot. Or even an oracle deck.

[chongjasmine]

I love middle earth and the hobbits!
Love lord of the rings very much!

[AeonHorus]

Hi @qndynes and anyone else who is interested.

I too would love to play on this and I feel that the DruidCraft would be an absolutely perfect deck to start.

I'm sure I have seen other Tolkien inspired decks too but I just cant think off hand.

Anyway if this thread is still open then I am game!

AeonHorus

[qndynes]

Yes! The more the merrier. I was on pause for quite a bit as these months have been quite rough for me and my family. But we are now coming out of it, and on the other side. I will be picking back all the things I dropped including being more involved in COT.

I was thinking of doing the first reading on the entwives, but definitely jump in, ask questions and read the cards.

As for deck, there I'm a little stuck although I'm quite drawn to using the Gill Tarot for this, it seems fitting with what I have in my deck collection (it's not huge, around 20 or less). I can definitely see the Druidcraft being apt for Middle Earth readings.

[Papageno]

I cannot vouch for this (Etsy) seller, but the work is lovely:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/585502420/ ... ef=hp_rv-1

so I thought I would share this with you Tolkien fans.

In addition, I wonder when or if the alleged Amazon production of "Silmarillion" will ever happen.

Personally I'm hoping they don't ask Peter Jackson to get involved again, I would prefer a fresh perspective.

I was disappointed with "The Hobbit" for the most part, although there were some exceptionally brilliant scenes.
Overall it felt as though he was forced into making The Hobbit after his way overproduced and way over budget "King Kong" received mixed reviews.

[Ciderwell]

A shame this thread never really took off.
My username, Ciderwell, is from an idea I had about something Sam Gamgee said in Lord of the Rings: when Frodo and Co, met Gildor and his band of elves, and they had partied into the wee small hours. The Hobbits got very drunk on Elven cider, as Sam says, "If I could grow apples like these, I'd call myself a gardener!". It made me imagine there was a well nearby from which the elves drew their brew.

Anyway, I tried a Lord of the Rings tarot reading using the Thelema deck.

9 of Pentacles, made me think of The Stairs of Cirith Ungol

So they came slowly to the white bridge [...]

High on a rocky seat upon the black knees of the Ephel Duath, stood
the walls and tower of Minas Morgul. All was dark about it, earth and
sky, but it was lit with light. Not the imprisoned moonlight welling
through the marble walls of Minas Ithil long ago, Tower of the Moon,
fair and radiant in the hollow of the hills. Paler indeed than the moon
ailing in some slow eclipse was the light of it now, wavering and
blowing like a noisome exhalation of decay, a corpse-light, a light that
illuminated nothing.

Question: is Minus Morgul actually fair Minas Ithil, cast under the shadow of a dark glamour?

Answer: XX Judgement

Wide flats lay on either bank, shadowy meads filled with pale white flowers.
Luminous these were too, beautiful and yet horrible of shape, like the
demented forms in an uneasy dream; and they gave forth a faint sickening
charnel-smell; an odour of rottenness filled the air [...]

[Ciderwell]

XX Judgement, reminds me of the Lady Galadriel being offered the One Ring by Frodo.

"Welcome to Caras Galadhon!" said Haldir.

There was a road paved with white stone running on the outer
brink of the fosse. Along this they went westward, with the city ever
climbing up like a green cloud upon their left; and as the night
deepened more lights sprang forth, until all the hill seemed afire with
stars. They came at last to a white bridge ...

The same white bridge of Cirth Ungol? Then the Dark Lord has already won,
enslaving the Elves and Lothlorien under his great shadow!

Question: How can we find a safe entrance into the Tower of Cirith Ungol, without
being seen by the all-seeing eye of the Dark Lord?

[Ciderwell]

Question: How can we find a safe entrance into the Tower of Cirith Ungol, without
being seen by the all seeing eye of the Dark Lord?

Answer: 4 of Swords - Thelema tarot

This is very, very, interesting. I wasn't sure Tarot would work with The Lord of the Ring.
Before drawing a card I checked the book's index for information on the Tower of the Moon (Minas Morgul). There are many towers mentioned in the story but only three use the prefix, Minas (which means, tower):

Minas Morgul or Minas Ithil - Tower of the rising Moon
Minas Anor - Tower of the setting Sun
Minas Tirith - Tower of the Guard

This seemed very odd! Why wasn't Minas Tirith, the Tower of the Stars? Well, I'm sure the fourth or singular sword holds the key to this inconsistency. And, due to my Scots upbringing plus my peculiar up-side-down logic, Minas Ithil translates into tower + thistle - of which I will now meditate upon.

[Ciderwell]

Why wasn't Minas Tirith, the Tower of the Stars?

Having given this some thought the answer, obviously, lies in the three trees that were planted for each of the three Minas' towers. The forces of Sauron captured Minas Ithil and destroyed the tree there, changing the name of the tower to Minas Morgul. Frodo and Sam were given a glimpse of these events in the Mirror of Galadriel. I believe Tolkien set down simple puzzles as something additional and fun for his readers.

So, based on the idea of puzzles within the story - What happened to the 5 Rings? They seem to have completely vanished altogether!

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie ...
Is it possible Tolkien used Tarot to hide the 5? My best guess is that just maybe the Witch-king and the White Rider stole them, long before Smaug the Truly Magnificent and Most Omnipotent settled down in Erebor.

[qndynes]

Oh thank you for picking this up and for sharing these wonderful reading explorations in conversation with the stories of Middle Earth. To be honest, I let fear get the better of me and never picked this thread up to start my own exploration with the card and these stories. I felt I didn't dare touch on the what ifs of the stories of Middle Earth as I hold the stories very dear to my heart. What you've shared has reminded me to stop stopping myself and to explore away. Thank you.

I love how you seamlessly wove the tarot readings and that they spoke beautifully to the question you asked.