Reading the Pips - through observation and logic

[Diana]

I am going to propose a series of threads which will address the numbered minors. Referred as the pips. The etymology of the word pip dates back to 1797, to mean "seed of an apple. It's a shortened form of pipin "seed of a fleshy fruit", which dates back to the early 14th century. But it comes from the Old French pepin (13th century).

Etymology can be very helpful when one is studying the Tarot of Marseilles. The English language is very lucky to have etymology.com - such a fine website. https://www.etymonline.com/. Superior to the wiki. I refer to it ever day, several times. The French speakers don't have such a fine resource and I regret it very much because the French language is so important when it comes to the Tarot of Marseilles. I sometimes have to search in several places and even then, I'm often dissatisfied.

Back to the pips.

The approach that I want to take here is to learn the cards through SELF DISCOVERY instead of starting out with already a tried and tested method. I want to let the cards grow - like seeds grow into apples. It's a long but beautiful process and one cannot hurry it. A bit like when one watches a rose slowly open.

So this implies that all we would have to start out with is a card with a picture on it (for let no-one say that these cards are unillustrated, this is absurd. Those cards are little paintings with things drawn on them and written. If that's not an illustration, then I must be living in another galaxy ).

What we have on the picture seems little at first - but there are a few things that are irrefutable and which are common to all the pips.

1) They have a number
2) They have an instrument of some sort
3) The instrument represents an element
4) There are floral elements and occasionally not
5) They don't have names
6) etc. etc.

So where do go with all this ? If we are to see the seed growing slowly, perhaps we should not make too much haste either. And see what is revealed slowly but inexorably. We'll be able to draw on some of the lessons we learned from the Majors - as without them, the pips would have no raison d'être and vice versa only differently. The Majors need some form of expression after all. Otherwise they're just sort of concepts. The Majors are our teachers, our gurus. But gurus wouldn't be gurus without their disciples.

I'm thinking of starting out with numbers and elements. I suspect that this will quite rapidly and naturally start including other aspects, those mentioned above including the etc., etc. which will have to include of course a comparison of the cards. But one has to start somewhere and as the association of numbers and elements is for me a very useful tool when reading the cards and that I don't actually know how I could read without this aspect, I'm going to start there. There are a number of pips with which I am still rather shaky, and I look forward to a bit of revision and a bit more clarity.

The association number/element does I believe form the foundation of how I've learned to read the pips. I didn't learn it from anyone or any book. It just seemed to me the most logical place to start. It helped me also question some authors' interpretations which seemed to have rather uncertain and fantasy origins.

I'll write my first post on this over the weekend when I have the appropriate time. I just wanted to give a sort of introduction here.

[Kellydii]

Hello,
I am looking forward to your future posts. Thank you for the link to etymonline.com! I oftentimes use wiki and am left unsatisfied with my search! I have done a fair amount of study of the pips and have used a variety of resources. This has resulted in a whole mish mash of tools I use to read the Pips. I will be interested in your ideas

[Diana]

Hello,
I am looking forward to your future posts. Thank you for the link to etymonline.com! I oftentimes use wiki and am left unsatisfied with my search! I have done a fair amount of study of the pips and have used a variety of resources. This has resulted in a whole mish mash of tools I use to read the Pips. I will be interested in your ideas

I'll be interested in your ideas! It's the mishmash that I'd like to clear up as there is a bit of a confusion, particularly when it comes to the numbers. One must find a method that works and which one can trust and particularly one that makes real sense. Something solid. That's my goal here. And I don't want to rely on books or other authors' discoveries. They don't often say how they came to their conclusions even if they are correct. I want to start out from scratch. This will allow for a critical viewpoint of other people's opinions and interpretations.

That being said, there's no harm in bringing up already talked about things - we don't need to reinvent the wheel - but I would hope then that they will be questioned and studied and see if our conclusions are similar to theirs. And if not, why not.

[Belenus]

I am all on board and look forward to discussions!

I am basically a "figure it out for myself" kinda' person too. Numbers have come relatively easy for me. Elements however have always been a HUGE sticking point and stumbling block for me. There is just nothing in my mind for example to say that swords represent the element of air. Talk about cognitive dissonance. LOL Similarly coins with earth, etc., etc. When I wanted to try and figure out why - then I discovered this historical mish-mash of esoteric hermeticism that got cut and pasted onto the 4 objects. <big sigh> So I asked my self, the simplest, most basic questions of all about those 4 objects: 1) What is it? 2) What is it for? In my mind, you can not get any simpler than that. No symbolism. No extraneous philosophies - just what is this thing pictured here, and what is it for, its function. That for me is absolutely the base core of observation and logic: "what is this and what do I use it for?"

Thus swords = a weapon that is used for defense and offense. Coins = a means to buy and sell resources/goods. Cups = containers to hold liquids that nourish, replenish, and celebrate. Batons = sticks to build e.g., furniture, houses, etc, and in some cases to defend (if you can't afford a sword.)

Now I apply those base meanings to the numbers, and away I go. Of course once I have these base ESSENCE (what is it?) and FUNCTION (what is it for?) than I can elaborate and deepen in all kinds of ways. For example - of course completely dependent upon the question, spread, and card position - so give me a bit of latitude here. LOL 2 of Swords (Epees) = could mean an argument, a fight/conflict, anger, stress, an impasse, deadlocked, opposing values or lifestyles or religions, etc., etc.

On a side-note (a different rabbit hole) -- Interestingly enough, when I was (am) struggling to learn Lenormand, my teacher (and several traditionalist authors) emphasized never memorizing keywords for the 36 cards. Instead to learn their Essence and Function and apply those. Voila! It worked. All of a sudden, Lenny started to open up for me.

kind regards,
Belenus

[Diana]

Thanks Belenus. I like your methods and the way you worked things out very well. It has the great merit to not leave any ambiguity and you can get down to the nitty gritty quickly. And it's sound and logical. Am sure this works just fine.

However, I do hope I'll be able to entice you a wee bit in my posts into also looking at the magic of the elements of the Tarot of Marseilles! Without them, I feel some of the poetry of the Tarot is missing - a note, a tone... an essence of things unseen.

[iMoodyCrab]

Joining this thread in an effort to understand these cards.

I have a query though, are there reversals in TdM? Some cards it's difficult to tell if it's reversed or upright. Like 4 de Baton, for example.

[Belenus]

Joining this thread in an effort to understand these cards.

I have a query though, are there reversals in TdM? Some cards it's difficult to tell if it's reversed or upright. Like 4 de Baton, for example.

Great question. The short answer is a definite "no". Reversals came into existence about 100 years later than the one of the earliest TdMs - the Noblet Tarot. It seems that a French esotericist named Alliette "invented" them for his pack of 36 card divination deck; a deck that in no way was a TdM or even pretended to be one.

BUT as you have noticed in the TdM, and similar decks, the Swords and Batons (and even the Coins) are almost impossible to tell if they are reversed or not. First and foremost the reason is that they were originally playing cards, for a card game. There was no need to have a reversed card in the game, thus the artists had every reason to make the cards in such a way that if they got mixed up in the shuffle - they would still always be upright. Thus saving the player the hassle of rearranging the cards. Notice how that is exactly the way standard playing cards are made today (even the Courts) are entirely upright, no matter how they are mixed.

Once the deck became a divinatory tool, upright still remained necessary because of how the cards were used. The flow of the images is halted, the eye skips and starts when for example, the Empress and the Pope are upside down in a line spread or French Cross. The idea of dealing and using all cards upright was that the card contained its FULL range of meanings - from high to low, dark to light. The question, the context of the spread position, the relationship between neighboring cards, etc. would reveal where in the spectrum of high to low, dark to light it should be read. Thus you would never need a reversed card to get a "better" reading.

The use of reversals was never, ever a part of the TdM tradition. The reason folks started to employ it with the TdM and its cousins, was because of that later "foreign" tradition that got "cut and pasted" onto the traditional tarot.

I personally never use them, and I can honestly say that in decades of reading, my readings (according to my clients) has never suffered in accuracy nor application.

respectfully,
Belenus

[Diana]

I just want to add to Belenus' post that for a long time in the French practice of the Tarot, the minors were not even considered. And still today, there are books being published that deal only with the Majors. And many TdM readers only use the majors. I used majors only for a very long time. And still do today. The other day I spent about five hours with a friend pulling cards and doing readings and we only used the majors.

The cards of the Tarot were designed for playing a card game. It was discovered later that they worked very well for divination and fortune telling.

I used to have my cards read by a real gypsy who had a most unusual method of reading the cards. She wanted to teach me but we never got round to it and then she died. She scoffed at the minors. Said they're only good for playing card games. She was a really good reader. Predicted things in the future that there was no way at the time she could have guessed. One prediction came true about 20 years later. I'm still waiting for one to happen.

I think one can read the TdM perfectly well without the minors if one wants to. But it's such fun to use them !

And yes, reversals and the TdM don't work very well. One needs to infer the reversed meaning from the card itself and the cards surrounding it.

[Aoife]

6) The instruments have a configuration...
... with only minor variations in the suits of swords and batons.

In the suits of cups and coins the configuration of the instruments from two, three, four to five is the same - understandably so - to keep the instruments the same size, there are limited configurations.
But when the instruments in the cups and coins increase from six and upwards the configurations are always different.

The configuration of the instruments is particularly important to me. Shapes seem to provoke connections.

[Diana]

6) The instruments have a configuration...
... with only minor variations in the suits of swords and batons.

In the suits of cups and coins the configuration of the instruments from two, three, four to five is the same - understandably so - to keep the instruments the same size, there are limited configurations.
But when the instruments in the cups and coins increase from six and upwards the configurations are always different.

The configuration of the instruments is particularly important to me. Shapes seem to provoke connections.

Indeed. The shapes and the configurations and the placements are hugely significant when reading the pips. Also the vegetation or lack of it.

It would be fascinating to discuss all these configurations. When I started these threads, I thought we'd cover basics first before getting into the nitty gritty and the actual practice. And configurations and shapes are so significant. We get really into the Visual and out of the theory. Observation of the cards often gives more info than numerology or elements. That's why Enrique's method works so well and that he can do great readings without any theory.

The reason I don't use EE's method is because I need the intellectual stimulus when I'm reading the cards. They're fine for reading and fortune telling and divining. But I couldn't just be satisified with doing good readings. I need to go beyond and below. In fact, reading the cards comes in secondary importance for me. It's not what I use principally the cards for, but to increase my knowledge of the world.

I never had the opportunity to do higher studies at university or anything. My highest degree is a secretarial diploma. The Tarot of Marseilles has been my university. Through it I discovered history, geography, theology, botany, numerology, mythology, art and so much more. It's been worth a million wikipedias.

The botany thing that I mentioned : Alain Bocher spent months researching in old books, even going to the National Library to research through old botanical books, to try and figure out which plants are represented in the TdM and their therapeutic usage and he published his findings. This is just to say that there are so many riches in the TdM that one would need several lives to cover them all.

And shapes and configurations are one of these.