Sicilian fresco circa 1445
French / 14th century
https://www.clevelandart.org/art/1924.859
This forum is officially closed. It will however remain online and active in a limited form for the time being.
Ace of Cups Gothic Sculpture/Painting
-
Joan Marie
- Forum Designer
- Sage
- Posts: 5306
- Joined: 22 Apr 2018, 21:52
Re: Ace of Cups Gothic Sculpture/Painting
I posted this in another thread but it fits better here so...
There was a pretty interesting discussion about the Ace of Cups that bubbled up in another thread over in Plato's Cave.
viewtopic.php?f=232&t=2199
The consensus was that the thing pictured on the ace of cups is a monstrance.
Yes, we all learned a new word that day.
And yet, seeing that on a fountain somehow seems more fitting for the suit of cups. What is that thing?
There was a pretty interesting discussion about the Ace of Cups that bubbled up in another thread over in Plato's Cave.
viewtopic.php?f=232&t=2199
The consensus was that the thing pictured on the ace of cups is a monstrance.
Yes, we all learned a new word that day.
And yet, seeing that on a fountain somehow seems more fitting for the suit of cups. What is that thing?
Button Soup Tarot, Star & Crown Oracle available @: Rabbit's Moon Tarot 
Re: Ace of Cups Gothic Sculpture/Painting
The fountain belongs to the world of the nobles who try to ignore Death which is coming at them, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trium ... _(Palermo)
PS: if you know German, you may know the expression "he is carrying it [whatever - his title, his morality, whatever is Holiest of Holy to someone] like a monstrance before him" because that's what priests in Catholic processions do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trium ... _(Palermo)
PS: if you know German, you may know the expression "he is carrying it [whatever - his title, his morality, whatever is Holiest of Holy to someone] like a monstrance before him" because that's what priests in Catholic processions do.
Re: Ace of Cups Gothic Sculpture/Painting
Thanks Nemia for further clarification, the original image I posted was from todays NY Times article about pandemics, and now I know what a "monstrance" is.Nemia wrote: ↑10 May 2020, 18:30 The fountain belongs to the world of the nobles who try to ignore Death which is coming at them, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trium ... _(Palermo)
PS: if you know German, you may know the expression "he is carrying it [whatever - his title, his morality, whatever is Holiest of Holy to someone] like a monstrance before him" because that's what priests in Catholic processions do.
as for the nobility attempting to escape the clutches of Death, it reminds me of the This Might Hurt Tarot, Death card with an image of a man in the lower left corner clutching paper money and offering it to Death in a vain attempt at bribery.
It's a very relevant contemporary interpretation that mirrors what is going on nowadays, the rich who are attempting to flee the big cities and take refuge in their 2nd homes, only to be rebuffed by the locals, or hiding on their yachts or private island retreats.
Rocket Raccoon: Blah, Blah, Blah.....
Re: Ace of Cups Gothic Sculpture/Painting
It's the story of the Decamerone, too.
But to be honest: if I had a yacht and an island, wouldn't I grab my children and family and flee there, too? The whole system is unfair, but I can't blame individuals doing what they can to save their loved ones. And at least they don't infect anybody else while taking themselves out of the game.
The Cups were historically associated with the clergy, weren't they? then it would make sense to use a picture of a monstrance. And for the Queen of Cups, the heart is really her monstrance. I'm sure Pamela Colman-Smith knew what a monstrance is - she converted to Catholicism and would certainly have observed Catholic rituals. A monstrance is the glorified pendant to the chalice - bread and wine.
I never really thought this through to the end but it makes perfect sense.
Btw, St. Clare of Assisi is one of the saints sometimes depicted with a monstrance. Robert Place, educated man that he is, depictred St. Clare as Queen of Cups in his Tarot of the Saints. But he put a pyx into her hand, not a monstrance. Well, a Host is either in a pyx or a monstrance. And the Host is the heart of love.
In the Sicilian fresco, the fountain has an interesting shape - a hexagon. Most baptismal fonts had the traditional octagonal shape (like baptisteries, buildings built around those fonts which were more like baths in early Christianity). That would mean it's a secular fountain, a luxury item, without religious associations.
In Italy, Gothic shapes like the ones that appear on the fresco are rarely seen, and mostly in the North. I didn't study this fresco but it seems to me that its master might have been a North European (Germany, Netherlands, maybe France). The treatment of space and the focus on the morbid also hint to non-Italian art. I'm thinking of the Leuven townhall in Belgium and similar exuberantly Gothic buildings. I don't know enough about Gothic fountains but I'm not certain that there is a connection to monstrances. I'd rather say that fountains such as this and monstrances both have their sources in Gothic shapes.
But to be honest: if I had a yacht and an island, wouldn't I grab my children and family and flee there, too? The whole system is unfair, but I can't blame individuals doing what they can to save their loved ones. And at least they don't infect anybody else while taking themselves out of the game.
The Cups were historically associated with the clergy, weren't they? then it would make sense to use a picture of a monstrance. And for the Queen of Cups, the heart is really her monstrance. I'm sure Pamela Colman-Smith knew what a monstrance is - she converted to Catholicism and would certainly have observed Catholic rituals. A monstrance is the glorified pendant to the chalice - bread and wine.
I never really thought this through to the end but it makes perfect sense.
Btw, St. Clare of Assisi is one of the saints sometimes depicted with a monstrance. Robert Place, educated man that he is, depictred St. Clare as Queen of Cups in his Tarot of the Saints. But he put a pyx into her hand, not a monstrance. Well, a Host is either in a pyx or a monstrance. And the Host is the heart of love.
In the Sicilian fresco, the fountain has an interesting shape - a hexagon. Most baptismal fonts had the traditional octagonal shape (like baptisteries, buildings built around those fonts which were more like baths in early Christianity). That would mean it's a secular fountain, a luxury item, without religious associations.
In Italy, Gothic shapes like the ones that appear on the fresco are rarely seen, and mostly in the North. I didn't study this fresco but it seems to me that its master might have been a North European (Germany, Netherlands, maybe France). The treatment of space and the focus on the morbid also hint to non-Italian art. I'm thinking of the Leuven townhall in Belgium and similar exuberantly Gothic buildings. I don't know enough about Gothic fountains but I'm not certain that there is a connection to monstrances. I'd rather say that fountains such as this and monstrances both have their sources in Gothic shapes.