The Influence of Historical Decks on Modern Ones

[Joan Marie]

You may have noticed that at the moment (May 23, 2018) the "List of Decks" is becoming fairly heavy with historical ones.

Several ancient Tarot and Lenormand images and descriptions have been sent to me for addition to the list.
(btw.deck creators, you can get your decks posted there too )

But I don't think you need to be a history major to be able to identify (at least most of the time) which decks are the historical ones and which are designed by modern artists.

Obviously techniques and production methods are vastly different now, even from just a few years ago.

But I think there is a thread, a very strong one that was started a very long time ago and which modern Tarot and Lenormand designers take hold of in some way.

In what ways do you see this thread carry through in modern decks? What kind of human sensibilities do you see carried through across the centuries that are expressed in the cards regardless if they were hand painted hundreds of years ago or assembled in the most recent version of photoshop?

or

[thesteelpanther]

I'd love to hear your answer to the question you posed. I personally have a very difficult time seeing anything of the historical decks in our modern counterparts.

[Nemia]

Interesting question. In the majors, it's easy to see the iconographical influence from the earliest decks to the latest. Artists may emphasize certain aspect of a tarot archetype but the cards mostly keep their profile and basic character.

In the minors, hm. I'm always surprised how closely the Thoth follows the arrangement of the suit symbols in the Wands, Cups and Disks suits (not so much the Swords); you could strip these cards down and you'd get recognisable pip cards. Atmosphere is introduced via colours, background etc. Decks in the Thoth tradition may show traces of these arrangements; I'll have to take a closer look at some decks to find out more about it.

The majority of decks following the RWS tradition are much more difficult to place. Very often, they take the scenes and narratives from the RWS deck and elaborate on them. Many new decks nowadays are no longer "RWS clones" (a word I never liked, even the Morgan Greer and Aquarian have a mind of their own and are not simply clones) and take totally new approaches, like the Orbifold.

In a way, it's like in art history. You have the Renaissance and post-Renaissance styles that develop until the 19th century (Vacchetta, Foudraz), and then you have modern art that rebels against tradition and expands the horizons (GD decks and their followers), and today post-modern art that takes a totally eclectic approach.

I'd love to see a Tree of Tarot Traditions, like we have for modern art some diagram. Maybe we could make our own.

Very nice for deck comparisons is Albi Deuter's page. What a pity he didn't update it for some time; the newest decks are not on there but it's interesting to look at single card comparisons (like the Seven of Swords - a card that can be taken into so many different directions).

[Papageno]

In what ways do you see this thread carry through in modern decks? What kind of human sensibilities do you see carried through across the centuries that are expressed in the cards regardless if they were hand painted hundreds of years ago or assembled in the most recent version of photoshop?

From a purely personal perspective, the only commonality I see is perhaps in the meanings of the imagery, but even that has evolved.

Your choice of the Foudraz, Orientali Tarot is interesting.
In one sense, it's an anomaly because unlike other European Tarot decks of its time, the Orientali Tarot was specifically designed to suit the tastes of the nobility and upper classes when Chinoiserie was En Vogue.

Bedrooms, drawing, and reception rooms were lavishly decorated with hand-painted wallpapers, porcelains, object d'arts, etc., so it makes perfect sense that a deck of playing cards would be designed to complement this purely aesthetic trend.
In this context, the Foudraz deck is an important historical Tarot, IMHO.

That being said, the Orientali Tarot was in a sense a forerunner of contemporary Tarot decks that have now been designed with a genuine appreciation of eastern philosophies and cultural heritages, so even with this (elusive) example, we see threads of commonality and evolution.

[Papageno]

Many new decks nowadays are no longer "RWS clones" (a word I never liked, even the Morgan Greer and Aquarian have a mind of their own and are not simply clones) and take totally new approaches, like the Orbifold.

In a way, it's like in art history. You have the Renaissance and post-Renaissance styles that develop until the 19th century (Vacchetta, Foudraz), and then you have modern art that rebels against tradition and expands the horizons (GD decks and their followers), and today post-modern art that takes a totally eclectic approach.

I'd love to see a Tree of Tarot Traditions, like we have for modern art some diagram. Maybe we could make our own.

Very nice for deck comparisons is Albi Deuter's page. What a pity he didn't update it for some time; the newest decks are not on there but it's interesting to look at single card comparisons (like the Seven of Swords - a card that can be taken into so many different directions).

The term, RWS clones is somewhat derisive, although Tom Benjamin is kinder with his description of RWS inspired decks.

As I see it, it's all art history, the Foudraz deck is a perfect example of this.

A Tree of Tarot Traditions diagram would be a daunting task indeed, probably far more ambitious than can be realistically achieved.
It would have to be a collaborative effort and even then, it would probably be a very contentious project with too many differences of opinions and perspectives; it would become too convoluted.

The albideuter site, as fascinating as it is, underscores my belief that such an undertaking is too difficult.
That's probably why the charts and diagrams were never updated, it's almost akin to untying the proverbial Gordian Knot.

[Nemia]

I'm more optimistic. If it can be done for modern art, which is extremely complex (artists change their styles and jump from group to group, and everything has international repercussions), why not for single tarot decks and schools? We just have to find Sisyphos who will take it upon him/herself