Who is Alejandro Jodorowsky ? - video

[Diana]

I watched earlier today a very interesting video on Alejandro Jodorowsky, focused on his films/movies. It's really worth watching if you haven't already.

It's called "Who is Alejandro Jodorowsky ?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iza0zQS ... L&index=30

[Maskelyne]

Thanks for that. Jodorowsky was my doorway into tarot--I wanted that deck shown wall-sized in Holy Mountain. Instead, I found a promo for the Camoin-Jodorowsky deck on the DVD. After failing to find one locally or online, I ordered direct.

[Joan Marie]

I have to admit the only film of his I have seen is Holy Mountain and at the time I was not a fan. In fact I could not watch the whole film. I think I may have also tried to watch El Topo but I don't remember it, so I must not have gotted too far.
I love experimental/art film but I just couldn't get with what he was doing.

Watching this little doc though makes me reconsider that judgement. That judgement of his films also made me sort of disregard his contribution to tarot. I guess maybe it is time again to have a look at that. I may not be so excited to rediscover his films, but I think I should at least have a look into his tarot influence.

[_R_]

Even though the dust has settled over the J-C Tarot deck, and his book has been available in English for a few years now, there has not been any significant attempt to "unpack" Jodorowsky's approach, or to assess his impact on the world of Tarot. This is something that remains to be done at any rate.

Some of his personal Tarot notes - written in the notebook intended for his Dune screenplay - was published a few years back by an art publisher, and it can be seen here:

It's handwritten, in Spanish, with bits of French and cards pasted in, like a scrap book - but it's full of illustrations, and it gives a good idea of how he actually went about putting his ideas together in the first instance, before distilling them for his book.

There are now a slew of short recent videos of him doing readings and explaining his approach, but one documentary worth looking at is "The Jodorowsky Constellation," (included on the DVD of one of his films and quite likely online at this stage) and perhaps also the part of Daniel Pinchbeck's documentary where he gets a reading in Paris.

Obviously, his writings should be taken with a large grain of salt.

[arcanis]

His bragging about raping the actress in El Topo and killing hundreds of rabbits with his bare hands doesn't make him a hero of any sort in my book.

[Diana]

Thanks arcanis for bringing that up. I went to read up about it - to separate the myth from the truth. And I see you speak true.

There is no excuse for animal abuse such as this - even if it is for the sake of art. And even if he "regrets" saying he raped the woman and that he didn't REALLY do it - all his explanations don't stand up. I'd like them to find the woman he says he raped, but apparently no-one has found out who she was. She probably wants to remain off the radar.

Killing 300 rabbits for a movie and speaking flippantly of rape is pretty hardcore. And quite unacceptable.

Am pretty pissed off here.

[Papageno]

what an appalling individual.

here is some news from a year ago:

https://www.artforum.com/news/el-museo- ... tive-78491

[Diana]

what an appalling individual.

here is some news from a year ago:

https://www.artforum.com/news/el-museo- ... tive-78491

Thanks for this Papageno. What people do for the sake of art....or their own inflated egos.... is astonishing. So the woman is named. I'd love to hear her version but I'm also glad that the newspapers are not hounding her if she doesn't want to speak about it.

I had no idea. I'm still sort of scratching my head here. I am so glad that arcanis mentioned this. What's next ? A snuff movie in the name of art ?

[Papageno]

or their own inflated egos.... is astonishing. So the woman is named. I'd love to hear her version but I'm also glad that the newspapers are not hounding her if she doesn't want to speak about it.

I had no idea. I'm still sort of scratching my head here. I am so glad that arcanis mentioned this. What's next ? A snuff movie in the name of art ?

I watched a trailer for Holy Mountain on YouTube, it screams self-importance without a conscience.
I love classy art-house films, but his style is not my taste, over-indulgent, over-produced, shock shlock hidden behind the facade of "art", IMHO.
Sorry if I've offended any Jodorowsky fans.

I recommend the Sally Potter film "Orlando", Roland Joffé's "Vatel", Lasse Hallström's "Chocolat" and Peter Greenaway films in general, just to name a few off the top of my head, but that's just me.

[devin]

Jodo's films are very much not my bag. This is an understatement. I also strongly condemn the killing of animals for entertainment, art, etc. That being said, abuse of animals was shockingly common in cinema in times gone by. And I very much doubt Jodo actually killed dozens of rabbits by hand. Distasteful hyperbole, surely. Anyway, carcasses would be obtained from slaughter houses or some such, wouldn't they?

[devin]

This does sound more believable to me.

When the film first came out, I was accused of killing animals to make it.8 So I said: “Yes! I kill animals! Yes! I hate women! I hate animals! I love violence!” I said that because, for me, these questions were idiotic. How you can judge a work with that kind of concept?

In reality, actually, all the animals in the film had already been killed. They were sick. There was a myxomatosis outbreak, that had killed a lot of rabbits, and I bought these dead rabbits.

Source: https://brightlightsfilm.com/the-mole-m ... kvK-k8zbcs

[_R_]

Jodo's films are very much not my bag. This is an understatement. I also strongly condemn the killing of animals for entertainment, art, etc. That being said, abuse of animals was shockingly common in cinema in times gone by. And I very much doubt Jodo actually killed dozens of rabbits by hand. Distasteful hyperbole, surely. Anyway, carcasses would be obtained from slaughter houses or some such, wouldn't they?

He said he got them from a zoo, as I recall.

In any case, the deliberately outrageous nature of his statements is completely in keeping with that of his films. (Assuming there is nothing more sinister to the case.)

[Diana]

Okay, so maybe he didn't kill the rabbits. I believe the article when he says that they were already dead.

And I see from the article that he hates Steven Spielberg :

"I hate Spielberg, because none of his movies are honest. His violence is ill, it’s not honest. He shows an ill violence, as though he was the father of history. He hates Jews, because he is Jewish. He is making business with that, with Europe. He is fascist, because America is the centre of his world. If I can kill Spielberg, I will kill Spielberg."

"There are a lot of moviemakers I like, and there are others I hate. But what I hate the most is Spielberg. And second Walt Disney."

Didn’t you used to hate Walt Disney above all others?

"Yes. But now it’s Spielberg. I think Spielberg is the son from when Walt Disney fucked Minnie Mouse. And then there was Spielberg."

He likes shock tactics this guy.

[devin]

In any case, the deliberately outrageous nature of his statements is completely in keeping with that of his films. (Assuming there is nothing more sinister to the case.)

Yeah, in that article I linked to, Jodo says it was all a response to some of the personal criticism he was receiving at the time. Criticism that used his work to infer a malignant personality.

@Diana

Sure, I don't think he's averse to employing the shock factor and indulging in some impromptu myth making. This even comes across in his tarot book.

Also, he may, if I understand him correctly, have a point on the violence angle. I remember a while back a BBC cop show had a record level of complaints after an episode in which a female police officer (the heroine of the piece) received a brutal beating. It was visceral, tragic, but not particularly gory, and showed the psychological after effects of violence. Really, I find it interesting how far gorier television passes with little comment while something relatively understated but intimate draws huge criticism.

How to explain this?

I think we live in a society that enjoys violence and killing. Thus, we do not like it when confronted with something that at least comes close to portraying the barbarism of such.

If you're interested, you can see the clip here. (But don't listen to the audio, someone's replaced the thumps and groans with a soundtrack?!?!)

https://youtu.be/pRJu5-HN5Zw?t=135

[Lionsmane]

Holy Mountain is the first thing anyone thinks of when they try to fast track an interest in tarot.
I think he has some genuine knowledge and interest in tarot to contribute.
His knowledge of astrology however, seems very childish.
I think even if he gives a reason for why he maltreats animals, it would be fanciful, based on this. I think these are sacrifices, based on some worldview he has that this world is to be used and thrown away in the name of spiritual ascension. ie all suffering is in the service of ascension. He is an intellectual narcissist in this regard, because his own film arrives back at its beginning, with an appreciation for the world. But its just a meme. But 99% of people in 99% of esoteric doctrines subscribe to the same idea, even simply for not bothering to delve deeply and resolve the details.
He is a meme of a wise old man, he is childish, and he is corrupt. BUT, he does help in his role of trying to educate other corrupt people, which is what Holy Mountain seems to be about from my perspective. It's funny, because people just assume if you're into tarot, you're into Jodorowsky. This is the first time anyone's asked, and its so funny that the general consensus is 'no way'. I'm personally not against him or his knowledge. I just don't relate.

[Parzival]

But 99% of people in 99% of esoteric doctrines subscribe to the same idea, even simply for not bothering to delve deeply and resolve the details.

I'm not quite sure of what you mean by this. Could you go a little more into this?
As to Jodorowsky, I found his book on the Marseilles Tarot majors interesting and insightful, although his rejection of all other decks seems narrow and non-progressive for anyone who admires the amazing range of Tarot art and symbolism. I looked at a few of his readings on video, and he seemed to have clear and deep knowledge of the cards, with empathy for the client. Maybe he has different dimensions of mind, like Crowley.